Sunday 19 August 2007

Trip to England?

I received this anonymous email today. It may be of interest to some of you:

What are you doing on 15 - 16 September. How about celebrating Glyndwr Day (16th) and the tenth anniversary of the Referendum Yes vote with a visit to support the English Democrats at their In My Heart 2007 Conference in Leicester?

Isn't it time Welsh nationalists made links with English nationalists? Sure we'll get some flack, but there's no harm in talking. Don't believe the Brit Nat propaganda that English nationalism is inherently racists - the English Nats are open to all ethnic groups and religions. Saying that English nationalism is automatically racists is like saying all British nationalists are racists because the BNP believe in Britian as a nation state as does Gordon Brown.

It would be interesting to learn more about the Campaign for an English Parliament. Maybe a delegation of Welsh nationalists could ask for observer status and see what's going on there too.

Both ourselves and the English have a common enemy - British nationalism. It's time to talk. Who's interested?

English Democrats: www.englishdemocrats.org.uk
The CEP: www.thecep.org.uk

20 comments:

alanindyfed said...

Yes, these people may be more amenable, but when I contacted the English Independence Party thet were quite negative and said they were against the EU.
I have now contacted the English Democrats.

Rhys Wynne said...

I think you need to work our the different groups

I've not heard of the English Independence Party

then there's the English Democrats (who stood in the old Monmouthshire in the last Welsh assembly elections!), and despite the party's honourable aims, their messageboard had a few cranks on it last time I looked.

There's also the Campaign for an English Parliament, similar to the Senedd i Gymru campaign, which is cross party.

Also an anonymous e-mail isn't very promising.

Charlie Marks said...

I agree with Rhys, an anonymous email ain't up to much. Still, it's better than nothing.

The EDP is kind of centrist, has fraternal relations with the Scottish National Party.

There is a tendency however for a few of the people who post on English nationalist sites and on blogs (like mine) which are supportive of the Campaign for an English Parliament....

Well, let's just say they're cranky, have a rather confused outlook whereby England is simulaneously dominated by and subsidising the other nations in the UK and some of them are ethnic nationalists.

hedd said...

English Independence Party = http://www.englishindependenceparty.com/

"The EIP was the first political party in the current era to recognise that if we English are to preserve our identity in a world of easy international travel where national boundaries have been weakened, we must start by restoring the identity of England. To do this we must recognise that the United Kingdom is a state and not a nation , and that Britishness is no longer a strong enough identity for us. We therefore advocate the division of the United Kingdom into a family of nations within the British Isles, which should include the Republic of Ireland. We also advocate, among other things listed in our Manifesto, a compassionate mixed economy, a classless society, and a single-tier education system paid for by government. While in many ways we overlap the policies of the Conservatives, Labour, and Liberal Democrats, we are a nationalist party and, like the SNP and Plaid Cymru, have to be understood as a nationalist party."

alanindyfed said...

"Britishness...is a political synonym for Englishness which extends English culture over the Scots, the Welsh, and the Irish" - Gwynfor Evans

alanindyfed said...

We need to celebrate Glyndwr Day and give it prominence. I will do this on my blog and suggest others do the same, in a concerted effort. I willl also bring it up at the Branch meetings here.

A Brummie said...

"'Britishness...is a political synonym for Englishness which extends English culture over the Scots, the Welsh, and the Irish' - Gwynfor Evans"


Ah I see... I'll remember that next time I hear Brown banging on about Britishness then.

Huw said...

Clicking on the English Dems link I see an advert for Garry Bushell who is considering standing against London Mayor Ken Livingston.

Bushell's ideas and those in the Sun for which he has worked are about as far from removed from what I want to see for Wales as is possible to get.

Whilst Bushell was involved with dogie skinhead bands in the 80s the people I knew in Wales who supported Plaid where great admirers of Ken Livingstone's progressive GLC which Thatcher un democratically shut down.

There are loads of find political groups and people in England but the English Independence party seem to me to be just bunch of nuttie flagwavers.

How about supporting people like the crowd picketing Heathrow or at the moment and those on www.indymedia.org.uk if you want to contact progressive groups?

Huw Jones

hedd said...

"Bushell's ideas and those in the Sun for which he has worked are about as far from removed from what I want to see for Wales as is possible to get."

I agree, many of the English Nationalist Groups seem rather right wing for my liking.

On the other hand, these people share our aims for an independent Wales, Scotland and England, and we therefore need to work with them.

Our main enemy is Gordon Brown and his 'Britishness' agenda!

david h jones said...

I don't understnad the problem here. What difference if the English Democrats are right wing or not? (there is no EIP). Huw and Alan, the whole point is that it's up the English to decide. One rason we want independence for Wales is that it allows Wales and England to define its own agenda.

Huw - how's the Heathrow picket furthering the constituional debate? That's a diffrent topic. One thing at the time.

The whole point of this blog is to further the independence of Wales (+ the other nations of Britain).

The Brit Nats will be very happy to see us not cooperating because of dissagreement over left-right and policy. The principle is independence / self-government for Wales and England. There's no reason why people who ar left wing and right wing shouldn't support that principle.

The ED and CEP are not racist - stop swallowing the propaganda of the Brit Left - they don't want us to talk.

alanindyfed said...

The stumbling block would be Europe.
The Celtic nations support membership of the EU but the EIP don't.

david h jones said...

" The stumbling block would be Europe.
The Celtic nations support membership of the EU but the EIP don't."

heavens sake Alan nobody's asking you to join the ED and there's no EIP, it's a matter of nationalists talking to each another. We don't have to agree on anything else than common decency (i.e. no racism) and a wish for a strong English and Welsh parliament. The whole point of nationalism is that you recognise different national aspirations.

Stop being pure but impotent.

Charlie Marks said...

But how much support is there in the Celtic nations to be part of a multinational European state, which is what the EU is becoming...

alanindyfed said...

Of course, it makes sense that the nations of Britain, Celtic or not, are a part of the European Union. This question is entirely relevant.

Charlie Marks said...

alan, given that the EU is driving "liberalisation" -- a fluffier word for privatisation -- on grounds that public services are a threat to the market, how can it be a good thing for an independent Wales to be a member of the EU?

Decentralist socialism, even if it means no more than incentivising co-operatives and SMEs and retaining publicly managed public services will not go down well with the EU -- and with the constitution being brought in, it will be harder to retain national sovereignty.

If Wales gains independence and joins the EU, it will quickly lose its independence...

david h jones said...

I think the debate, at this stage, is do people agree with an self-government for Wales and England. The European issue is an important one but it's one taken after agreeing on that fundamental first base.

For interest, the CEP's annual conference held from 2pm on Saturday 17th November 2007 in the Society of Friends Meeting House, Friargate, York, YO1 9RL.

Shouldn't someone go to that too? Is there still a campaign for a Welsh Parliament? Or what about the Cymru Yfory campaign lead by the Archbishop of Wales?

I think we need to start making links with fellow nationalists in England. The discussions about left-right come later - not everyone who believes in a British Parliament agrees with one another on left/right issues, so why should those who believe in a Welsh or English parliament do so too?

Hedd said...

http://www.cymru-yfory.co.uk/

But no new info posted since May.

I don't know what's happened to the "Campaign for a Welsh parliament".

We need to start an "Independent Wales convention" or something similar. The Green party hinted before the last election that they would be interested, as would Plaid Cymru, and maybe a few of the minor socialist parties?!?

What would also need to do is to try and get the support of a few members within the British parties. Glyn Davies - Tory? Paul Flynn - Labour? etc and build from there.

Penddu said...

I belive that the EDP - depsite some of their crankier members - may prove to be critical in speeding up our campaign for Welsh Independence. But we must be careful as they are basically reactionary - much of their policy is little-englander and opposes Celtic nationalism. If they were to adopt a more proactive stand and promote the benefits of English independence it would certainly benefit us.

We should not actively support them but we should certainly watch them closely.

david h jones said...

Penddu - "I belive that the EDP - depsite some of their crankier members - may prove to be critical in speeding up our campaign for Welsh Independence. But we must be careful as they are basically reactionary - much of their policy is little-englander and opposes Celtic nationalism. If they were to adopt a more proactive stand and promote the benefits of English independence it would certainly benefit us."

exactly ... so, wouldn't it make sense for Welsh nationalists to meet them to help ourselves and them? Maybe then, they would adopt a more 'proactive stand'.

Hedd - agree with you, but I think this is a debate for anther time. Let's try and sort out meeting these people first?

May I suggest, those who know people in the Campaign for Welsh Parliament, raise the possibility of them going to the CEP / ED Conference.

Those who know PLaid Cymru AMs/MPs to sugges the same.

Others who want to start pro-indepencence convention to discuss that later or another posting. Lets sort this out first.

Independence4Celts said...

I think it's ridiculous that the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish have the right to state how England is run. Don't the English want to change this and have English MPs voting on English issues in an English Parliament. Come on England stand up for your rights. Let's all become Independant and look after ourselves, no-one funding anyone else.