Tuesday 7 August 2007

An Independent Wales Be Too Poor.....

Wales is clearly one of the poorer parts of the UK, but this is relative. According to the International Monetary Fund, the UK has a GDP per Capita of around $35,000 making it the 12th richest country in the world.

I do not have exact figures for Wales available, but I have seen it quoted that Wales’s GDP per Capita is only 80% of the UK’s figure. This would put the Welsh figure at around $28,000, which would place us at around 26th place – out of more than 200 countries.

This would also place us around 12th place in the EU.

Would an independent Wales be poor? – only relatively.

We would actually be the envy of much of the world!!


Anonymous said...

If an independent Wales had a liberal low-tax free market with high-class education and high research budget GDP would improve quickly within the EU.

This will not happen though because of the high spending of the socialist state.

Unknown said...

You have identified one of the Myths - that Wales is too poor.
Ireland was poor until a couple of decades ago, and look at Ireland now!
I was in Ireland in 1964 and there was considerable poverty and children and old men begging on the streets of Dublin (see my blog : "Myths.....") at Independence Cymru).

Aled Wyn said...

ryan, you talk as if this much talked about socialist state exists already?! So what would you say is low tax? What would a the figures be for a state the size of Wales? And what exactly do you mean by free market, does that not already exist? os do you mean an un regulated free for all where market forces rule absolutely everything? Would this free market libertarian view extend the problems of housing to other sectors of the economy and commerce? I am not a libertarian and neither am i a fan of a controlled economy, however i would welcome freedom for both individuals and the right of communities.

Anonymous said...

aled, to suggest that a socialist state does not already exist is just nonsense. We have free bus passes for the elderly, housing associations etc.

We need to work towards a solution where we no longer require these subsidies.

Of course this is ideological, and will be impossible to totally achieve due to long term illnesses etc, but we need to create an environment where people have the opportunity to get a good job.

Only by investing in research and by allowing companies to set up easily will this occur.

Activist said...


The liberal capitalist solution has two thirds of the world's population starving and a third dying of obesity. We have a free market economy in buckets but it is riven by failure which must be managed in the interests of the majority. If we cut taxes in Wales which vulnerable welsh citizens would you deny services to - the sick? the elderly? the disabled? How will a low tax economy serve their interests? Wales is a communtarian country where fairness and equality of opportunity is our heritage. Does anyone in Plaid actually read Welsh history? What is the point of independence if it simply delivers the world that the Tories would give us anyway?

Plaid is meant to be a socialist party. Why are there so many neo con members? (Apologies to Leanne et al for whom I have the utmost respect).

tim thomas said...

While on the one hand, I would welcome a reduction in corporate taxes especially and perhaps exclusively for small and medium enterprises, on the other hand if you want 21st century services you have to pay for them.

Lower corporate taxation for small and medium enterprises along with improved mechanisms in business training, support and research would be a major boost to the Welsh economy, just like what has happened over in the Irish Republic.

In order to support the great number of social institutions, which are a major benefit to the elderly and the vulnerable, such as bus pass and free swimming for the elderly etc, an eradication of the unfair Council tax system which would be replaced by income tax would be necessary.

By taxing the most affluent member’s of society more heavily adequate finance will be in place to support the most vulnerable and implement a number of additional policies to counter a number of pressing problems which have been a major concern in Wales, such as housing, rural poverty and exclusion .A phenomena which has and always will be ignored by Westminster and its institutions.

David Thomas said...

The Laffer Curve in economics certainly suggests that cutting the rate of tax can stimulate output and actually generate higher tax revenues bit it is notoriously difficult to determine the point at which to set the rate of tax for that to happen. RoI did it and did it well and the Baltic states, by and large, are following suit but Wales has (as yet)nowhere near the independence in fiscal and monetary matters needed to "manage" its economy in this way.

Independence4Celts said...

Wales is the poorest country in the UK and one of the poorest in Western Europe; time for a change has come; we need to stand up together and better the people of this amazing country.

Unknown said...

I was looking around on the net for some links to Welsh independence group and came about your page. I am a photographer from Wales based in the West Midlands. I am trying to undertake a project on separatist groups around the world and really want to start at home. I hope to get out to do some with activists in the Basque country; Kurdish Iraq and hope to get down to South America later. I was not aware of any groups that still existed in Wales to be honest, but have found a few dribs and drabs around the net. I was wondering if you could give me some info you may have or know of any people to get in touch with.
Could you let me know as soon as possible so that I can cover this story as farely as possible.
Michael Griffiths